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Kapetanios
Michael Akerib
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Looking for members or descendants of Kapetanios family from Kifissia. My grandmother's maiden name was Marianthia Kapetanios and my uncle's name Manthos Fortunas and his two sons Angelos and Stelios
Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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2
RE: Kapetanios
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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Michael Akerib wrote:
Looking for members or descendants of Kapetanios family from Kifissia. My grandmother's maiden name was Marianthia Kapetanios and my uncle's name Manthos Fortunas and his two sons Angelos and Stelios

Hello from Athens Greece. I was looking on the internet to find some references for an old friend of mine, the intellectual and cinema and theater director, from whom I have not heard for a long time (as myself I was out of Greece for 11 years), and I got into your message. The person I knew was named Angelos Fortunas and he had a son named Manthos. It seems too big to be a coincidence, so that is why I write this message to you. He might as well be your oncle's son who named his son after his father Manthos. I know where he stayed in Athens, somewhere in Kypseli. He also refered very often to an old aunt that he was taking care of back in the late 80's and early 90's.

 

Maybe you already found them after two years that you wrote this message. If we are talking about the same person, please let me know. Hope I've helped.

Julie

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
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3
RE: Kapetanios [2]
Michael Akerib
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Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Angelos is indeed supposed to be my cousin and I tried several times to contact him but he never wanted any contact. He is Manthos' son indeed but the aunt is not my mother. Perhaps it was an aunt on the maternal side. 

I say supposed because a lot of the things are crowded in uncertainty and I have come to the personal conclusion that although appearances seem to betray that, but Manthos was probably not my mother's real brother as dates dont seem to match.

I have been trying to find someone who would be willing to do some research for me, and more precisely find who was Angelo's grandfather (and possibly mine too) but have not had any volunteers. Would you happen to know any one?

 Julie, do you live in the US? I live in Switzerland.

 Again thank you. 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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4
RE: Kapetanios [3]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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Michael Akerib wrote:

Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Angelos is indeed supposed to be my cousin and I tried several times to contact him but he never wanted any contact. He is Manthos' son indeed but the aunt is not my mother. Perhaps it was an aunt on the maternal side. 

I say supposed because a lot of the things are crowded in uncertainty and I have come to the personal conclusion that although appearances seem to betray that, but Manthos was probably not my mother's real brother as dates dont seem to match.

I have been trying to find someone who would be willing to do some research for me, and more precisely find who was Angelo's grandfather (and possibly mine too) but have not had any volunteers. Would you happen to know any one?

 Julie, do you live in the US? I live in Switzerland.

 Again thank you. 

I did not expect such a prompt reply. I leave in Greece, Athens and I speak french and greek in case you would like to communicate in that language.

After sending the message I was thinking that Angelos had never mentioned a brother. Also he was speaking of two aunts in the beginning. Anyway, to be honest I was trying to find if he is still in life because if so he must be quite old.

 

But tell me a little more about the person you had tried to contact.

Are you half greek?

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
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5
RE: Kapetanios [4]
Michael Akerib
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Thank you so much for your answer. Although my mother was Greek, I cannot write the language and having studied and worked in English am fully fluent in that language.

Angelos must be in his early 70s if he is still allive. His brother was Stelios who was about 3 years younger than him. He had an antique shop in Vukurestiu just across Lalounis' shop. He passed away about 10 years away after having closed his store and wanting to open a tango club.

I was always told that Manthos was my mum's brother but assuming that my grandmother's birthdate is correct, then that is hardly likely considering she must have had him when she was about 6 years old.

My grandmother's maiden name was Capetanios and I have assumed she actually never married my maternal grandfather. He disappeared in 1916 or 1917 and my nmother looked for him the 1930s but found no trace whatsoever of him.

As regards the Fortuna name I was told that this was my grandfather's nickname because he was a sea captain, that it was Manthos who took it as a war name, that it was really his name and that he was from Zakinthos. There are a lot of discrepancies and i once met a lawyer in Athens and asked him to find out who was registered as Manthos' father. We signed a mandate and i paid an advance. Two months later he returned the advance and said it was not possible to get this data.

I am not sure hwo you mean by the person I had tried to contact. I guess you are refering to what I said - ie that i wanted someone to try and find out who was registered as Manthos' father. So far no one has volunteered although i have offered to pay.

Very best regards,

Michael 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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6
RE: Kapetanios [5]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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Michael Akerib wrote:

Thank you so much for your answer. Although my mother was Greek, I cannot write the language and having studied and worked in English am fully fluent in that language.

Angelos must be in his early 70s if he is still allive. His brother was Stelios who was about 3 years younger than him. He had an antique shop in Vukurestiu just across Lalounis' shop. He passed away about 10 years away after having closed his store and wanting to open a tango club.

I was always told that Manthos was my mum's brother but assuming that my grandmother's birthdate is correct, then that is hardly likely considering she must have had him when she was about 6 years old.

My grandmother's maiden name was Capetanios and I have assumed she actually never married my maternal grandfather. He disappeared in 1916 or 1917 and my nmother looked for him the 1930s but found no trace whatsoever of him.

As regards the Fortuna name I was told that this was my grandfather's nickname because he was a sea captain, that it was Manthos who took it as a war name, that it was really his name and that he was from Zakinthos. There are a lot of discrepancies and i once met a lawyer in Athens and asked him to find out who was registered as Manthos' father. We signed a mandate and i paid an advance. Two months later he returned the advance and said it was not possible to get this data.

I am not sure hwo you mean by the person I had tried to contact. I guess you are refering to what I said - ie that i wanted someone to try and find out who was registered as Manthos' father. So far no one has volunteered although i have offered to pay.

Very best regards,

Michael 

Good morning,

It is amazing but now that you are mentioning it I do remeber something about a brother who was an antiquaire, although I had never met him. 

When I was talking about the person you have contacted I meant Angelos. He had studied cinema in Italy and then he specialised in radio broadcasts of thetrical plays.

Have you ever contacted him?

As for your grandmother's age, at those times they did not kep clear records.

Well, I could try occasionnaly to find out how someone can get a record of his family at the Athens city hall, and give you this information. Then, you might write a proper and official demand, which I could help youto write it in greek and get the information by the official registry.

On the other hand I cannot understand why someone would not like to be contacted by family members. Are there any property issues?

Well, this whole affair intrigues me somehow and the occasion given I'll try to find out more about Angelos and if he is still alive. Hoping that he is still well, he might be the one to enligten us more.

Will let you know about the official ways.

If you are on facebook I have checked your photo (dark costume and tie), then I can tell you that you look a lot like Angelo.

 

With best regards,

Julie

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
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7
RE: Kapetanios [6]
Michael Akerib
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Good morning and thank you so much for your answer. I dont have enough words to say how grateful i was.

I did meet Stelio a couple of times including having lunch with him, and had once a phone conversation with him, but at the time I had not taken upon me to trace who was my maternal grandfather.

Stelio criticized Angelo as someone who was unable to earn a living and who was always asking him for money.

When my grandmother died, there was a property issue as she left a very large field with almond trees and Mantho inherited it and gave nothing to my mother. They stayed out of touch for several years and it was only when Catherine, Manthos' wife and therefore Angelos' mother went to London to be treated for cancer (and where she died I beleive) that they spoke again.

If you believe this is intriguing, please let me tell you I have gone from surprise to surprise.

Just to tell you how the whole thing started: in 1993 I went through a very difficult divorce and was very depressed. A Turkish friend of mine who lives in Geneva invited me for dinner and there happened to be another couple (a young Turkish lady and her Swiss husband). At the end of the meal she offered to read our coffee cups and my friend said her grandmother had been extremely respected as a seer in Turkey and had even indicated Ataturk's precise date and time of death 10 years before he died.

I am a skeptic (to this day) but agreed nevertheless for her to look at my cup as a kind of joke. When she looked at my cup (it was a perfect spiral with an empty part at the bottom - and strangely enough a friend of mine who does that more as game got exactly the same thing several years after but could not interpret it) she started discussing in Turkish with my friend. She said that she did not want to tell me in detail what she had seen, but only that there was a very big mystery in m family related to who my grandfather was. I said 'which grandfather - like everyone else I have two'. She said 'your maternal grandfather'.

So I made a bet with my friend that in a month's time I would give him all of my grandfather's details.

My mother had already passed away, and so had Manthos and Stelio and, as I said, Angelo refused any contact. So I wrote to my father who answered a very long letter telling me he did not really know who my mother really was since they married three times and divorced twice as every time she changed identitiy.

It was very difficult to believe and that is when I stqarted doing research and went from one bizarre situation to another.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Best regards,

Michael 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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8
RE: Kapetanios [7]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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Well, Michael, it is more than sure that we are speaking about the same person. Stelios' boutique was called Shiraz, and I wonder if it was not previously at Solonos street, a vertical to Voukourestiou.

As for Angelo he was an erudit, intellectual, art amateur and generally a very interesting person despite the comments of his brother.I am trully sad forhis loss.

He might as well have explained to me the origin of Fortuna name. His son is Mathaios (Manthos), a very handsome man, probably  in his late thirties.

I do not know why Angelo did not want to have contact with you, contrary to his brother. You might know better. 

Thank you for giving all these details, it is certainly is a passionant story. On the other hand, I understand that the whole inheritance issue might be complicated. And you are not even sure of being real cousins!  For the property matters I am not entitled or willing to interfere. A lawyer or notary would be the most appropriate persons to help you with that.

I could only  try to help you trace the origins of your family. So,as soon as possible, I'll try to see by which method this is possible. If I understand well you would like to know Matho's Fortunas, husband of Catherine father's name?

 

With best regards, 

Jule

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
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9
RE: Kapetanios [8]
Michael Akerib
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Thank you for your reply.

 I have no intention whatsoever of raising the issue of the inheritance which is probably now something like 50 years old. I just want to know who was grandfather - supposedly also Manthos' father.

On the matter of the ressemblance, I look very much like my father and the similitude with Angelo is probably just superficial (particularly if as I suspect we are in fact not - at least closely - related).  

Do I understand correctly that Angelo passed away?

Yes Stelios' boutique was called Shiraz as early on Stelio was a steward on Olympic and was often on the Tehran line from where he brought a lot of antiques. I went several times to the boutique and have only known the one in Voukourestiou. My elder daughter was there about 5 years ago and the people in the neighboring boutique told her he had passed away. So you knew him?

I dont have the slightest clue as to why Angelo did not want to have any contact with me. The last time I saw him was something like 60 years ago. Angelo also had a daughter I believe. Angelo and my sister had stayed in touch for many years but never met again. The last time any of the members of my family saw him was about 60 years ago. I know my mum sent him money when he was studying in Rome.

Yes indeed I want to know who is Manthos Fortunas' father whom I suppose to also be my grandfather. My theory - which may be totally false - is that although Manthos and my mother (Anastasia) had a common father, Marianthi Capetaniou, my grandmother, was not Manthos' biological mother but probably took care of him in his youth. It is just a theory. It is Manthos who told me that their father (the man I want to identify) was from Zakinthos and a sea captain, but actually my research has shown me that the only Fortuna in Greece are Mantho and his descendants. Fortuna is an Italian name and there are many Fortuna and I have been in touch with many of them including because I had a colleague called Fortuna and she was pure Italian.

A lady I met on a plane once, who was from Zakinthos, went to the town hall when she returned home and told me there was no recored whatsoever of any Fortunas. His first name, by the way, was Gregorio. 

Julie thank you for all your interest and assistance. 

Michael 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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10
RE: Kapetanios [9]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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Well, Michael I have mentioned in my yesterday's message that Angelos has passed away and I was too sad to find out that this happened only some months ago, as it is a long time that I wanted to have his news, but was too busy to do any research. So, after your message, as I recalled about his antiquaire brother, I took a big effort to remember the name of his shop. I do not recall having met him, just Angelo's talking about him.

And at that particular moment as memory has started to flash again, when remembering a shop's name that I had never visited, this is exactly what relally upset me:  the time passing and the irremediable of it. Angelo has been an important friend for me many many years ago, before I left Greece and we'll never have the opportunity to recall  our conversations and jokes again together. I even contacted a friend of mine who had met him to find out if she remembers how we had met -as after twenty years so many new thigs have put on layers to the older ones.

Anyway, I do not really understand why I tried to reach him at this particular moment and how I happened to come across your message and so on. This is supposed to mean something for somebody, but do not know yet for whom. A closure maybe or an opening?

It is reassuring, at least I trust your saying that you are not looking for inheritance matters. 

This week I am not at my office on daytime so it is difficult to make the necessary calls and find the way to locate the registry and eventually your family records. Let usonly hope that there will be some trace and that the registry had done their job at those early times.

Anastasia is a name of some nice cousins and friends of mine. What is your daughter's name? Angelo had only spoke about a son. Never heard of a daughter. 

Another Fortuna is in Volos Thessalia I think, as trying to locate Angelo's number. Zakinthos, does not remind me of anything.

Your father could also have the proper data (at least the 3 identities, as a basis to look upon firstly) about your mother.

 

With best regards,

Julie

 

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
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11
RE: Kapetanios [10]
Michael Akerib
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I do have the three identities of my mother (with three diffefent nationalities) but they were all fake just as the Greek passport my mother carried with us on it was a 'true-fake'. I did very extensive research. My godfather was Alecos Vogas who was the military attache at the Greek embassy in Cairo and I was able to trace information both through my father (who has now passed away) and the Greek defense ministry and it appars that my mother was an intelligence operative. Her last identity was Anna Kapitanaki. As I said there are a great number of bizarre things and the more I dug the more surprising things came out - such as two identities for my grandmother when she passed away. I even was in touch with the Archbishop of Alexandria. Before dying my mother destroyed all her documents, including her passports.

Although my dad was with my mother in the 30's looking for her father in Greece, she actually never told him his name other than 'Gregorios'. Perhaps she did not know it either? My father said that as far as he knew my grandmother had eloped with this man when she was a minor and became pregnant with my mother and he settled her in Egypt until the moment he just vanished in thin air. Actually my mother had a recollection that he had gone to fetch her at school kept her in a hotel for 2-3 days which she said were the happiest in her life, then brought her back to school and simply vanished.

I have two daughters and a son: my elder daughter from a first marriage is Rosemary and a headhunter here - she is 43 - and then a son - Peter - who is 14 and a second daughter who is 7 - Ekaterina. 

On her deathbed my mother thought I was her father which may be an unconscious reason for my search although there is also the challenge of finishing a search that m mother was unable to carry out. 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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12
RE: Kapetanios [11]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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What a story! The episode of your mother passing some time with her father, who then vanished, reminds me of something I have read recently. It seems that Isadora Duncan had a similar experience with her father.

But was it her real father or the one who had married your grandmother. It seems so complicated. 

If you have done such a profound research where did you get stuck exactly? Of this pell mell, which thread exactly would you expect me to pull?

Good to hear about your three children.

Talk again soon.

Best regards,

Georgia

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
- Reply
13
RE: Kapetanios [12]
Michael Akerib
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Thank you for your message. I really appreciate your interest. 

It was her real father and, if my hypothesis is correct, also Manthos' father but according to my mother, Manthos by that time was in Greece studying music (he was an hautbois player). Manthos was 13 years older than my mother. Which also led me to think that if they have a common father, they probably do not have a common mother.

As I said the only thing I want to know is the name of this man - in fact my grandfather.

I got stuck because my mother's records are fake and there is no record of her baptism in Egypt (although she had a baptism certificate signed by the Archbishop himself which is rather surprising according to the Archbishop's secretary. The baptism certificate is dated 1952) so I have no way of knowing his name. There was a voluntary will from my mother to hide what she knew about him and I have no idea why. From then on all hypotheses are possible - he was a criminal, he was still married, etc.

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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14
RE: Kapetanios [13]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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At what age was your mother baptised?
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
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15
RE: Kapetanios [6]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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Some things that I forgot to comment. I just remembered, the name of the antiques shop had something to do with a persian city or with the rose it is not clear.

Well, I find the whole thing very itriguing so after writing my previous message I tried to find the telephone number ofangelo and talk to him after so many years, as I would never do anything that he would not approuve.

 Alas, he passed away only four months ago! I am very sad to find that out, as it would have been so nice to talk to him again. I always had in mind to try and contact him by facebook or sth like that but always been busy.

 

Anyway, these are the sad news, I think he was a lot more than 70 years old.

Sorry I have to leave you now, if it matters to you to find your roots I could help you.

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
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16
RE: Kapetanios [7]
Michael Akerib
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Thank you and yes as you already said the name of the shop was Shiraz and originally he sold Iranian antiques.

Angelos was probably born in 1939 as he was 3 years older than my sister - so 74. Today this is still a young age.

As I said it has become very important for me to find out who was my grandfather.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Michael 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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17
RE: mixing the messages' order...
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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I think that the site is messing a little bit up the messages and they do not appear in the right order.

In my last message I was asking at what age your mother was baptised, as you mentioned that the baptism certificate was dated on 1959.

As I also mentioned in a message yesterday,  this week I am not at the office in the morning, so do not have the occasion to reach for the registry and try to ask about ways of discovering someone's ancestors.

As soon as I find this information, I'll let you know how to proceed.

Have a nice evening.

 

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
- Reply
18
RE: mixing the messages' order... [9]
Michael Akerib
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As I mentioned, the name my mother assumed - Anna Kapitanaki - is not in any registry and although she used to travel with a Greek passport on which my sister and I were also it was a fake, probably a 'real fake'.

When I first started traveling to Greece on business, I was afraid I would be stopped at the airport for military service. But thta never happened. About 10 years ago I regularly came to Greece to teach and one of my students was a captain in the army and he did some research - my name appers nowhere.

May I ask what kind of work you do?

Michael 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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19
RE: mixing the messages' order... [10]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
- Close

Lucky you, not to be called for your military service!

May I ask if your mother was baptised as a Christian Orthodox and how old was she at 1959?

Well, since you have told me so man things about you here are someof my details.

My university degree is  on French and Greek Literature, I have a DEA from Paris IV Sorbonne and a thesis to be submitted there as well, as soon as I find the grant to finalise it.

After ten years in Paris and one in Brussels I returned to Greece at 2002, based in the Cyclades islands in the beginning and since 2003 in Athens. I am recruited after a big competition that took place on 2000 as a professor of secondary education and took my first post in Syros island at the rectorate. Since then, I took several administrative posts in the ministries of Education, Interior,  finally I also worked as a foreign language teacher and then again  at the ministry of education. Specialised in international relations, public relations, communication, but also control of public bodies.

I am afraid that my ancestors story is not as mysterious (or maybe not?)

 

So, what are you teaching?

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
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20
RE: mixing the messages' order... [11]
Michael Akerib
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My mother's baptism certificate is from the Greek Orthodox Patriarcate and both my sister and I were baptized as Greek Orthodox. My sister later went on to join some American sect or other.

My mum was born in 1913 so probably she just bought that certificate or had it issued through her contacts.

You have a very impressive career. I teach Marketing, Strategy and Scenario Planning. I am the person who set up the MBA program at New York College. 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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21
RE: mixing the messages' order... [12]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
- Close

Oh, I see, maybe she needed it for some reason. My grandmother was born in 1909 and passed away some 20 years ago. 

What you do is very interesting! As for the strategy and scenario planning, this must have been a gift you inherited from your mother!

I have some background with the Harvard Kennedy School, as I was in charge of organsing  some seminars of their global portfolio in Athens and I had the chance  to follow one of them, Strategic Management for Leaders of NGO's.

So you set the MBA program  of the New York College! Well, I happen to work at a ministry's directorate which is responsible for all these KEME, although I am not directly involved. Isn't that amazing?

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
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22
RE: mixing the messages' order... [13]
Michael Akerib
- Close

Yes we do have a lot of bridges between our work.

Originally I used to teach at New York College for a French state business school called ESCEM. Foutsis (the owner of NYC) and ESCEM disagreed on franchise fees with the introduction of the Euro and Foutsis asked me to create MBA programs from a Swiss institution. This is when I made a deal with IUKB to create and licence these programs for Athens, Thessaloniki, Skopje, Tirana and Prague.

Eventuelly IUKB made a deal with a private group here and I was asked to leave.

Have a great day.

 Michael 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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23
RE: mixing the messages' order... [14]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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Hello Michael,

 How very interesting and challenging to found something so large!  Although there are some issues with the private universities in Greece I know that the programs offered are of high quality.

So you were travelling a lot to Athens.  Pity it is not the case now, it might have been usful for your research also.

Thank you I had a nice day, full of meetings, and pleasant occupations.

Your case occupies my mind and as soon as I find a way I'll let you know.

With best regards,

Julie

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
- Reply
24
Hello Georgia
Michael Akerib
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i hope you are fine. on a 2-week holiday for easter which will allow me to catch up with mountains of late stuff.

 Best regards,

 Michael 

Michael Akerib
Switzerland
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25
RE: Hello Georgia [16]
Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
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Hello Mikhael,

Just got back from a 3 day excursion to the Peloponnese as today it was the Annunciation and our National holiday. Also last week we had Kathari Deftera and it was a 3 day week end as well.

But Easter is coming on May 5th for us, so still have way.

When I started reading your message, I thought that you were going to do some mountain hiking  and then I understood that you have a lot to do. so, it is good to have a 2 week holidays, I am sure you'll be able to catch up on. 

 Well, I have met some of my contacts in contribution to find out how things work, but at first sight it appears that registries for the years that interest you are not very well kept.

We'll see.

Enjoy your holidays, Happy Easter!

Γεωργία Πρωτογέρου
Ελλάδα
- Reply
 
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